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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 27 2011 at 3:40pm
         Following the money & following who the money
 people pay off in Congress is a good starting point to
 understand the debt crap.
          The Military Industrial Complex don't want anything military related cut.
           Big Pharma don't want Medicare or Medicaid
 cuts.
          Wall Street Bankers don't want FED interest cut.
        Special interest groups don't want Government cut.
    What is left to cut you say? NOTHING
  
          The only thing left to do is raise money the
 old fashioned way.... RAISE TAXES & RAISE INTEREST.
   And THAT ladies and gentlemen is what is going to
 happen. The constant stream of bullshit from both
 sides will result in raised taxes and raised interest rates.
            Carter raised interest rates to 23% to kill the economy and rip us off. [interest rates]  Reagan & Bush 41 "compromised" with higher taxes and gave Clinton a surplus, which both parties blew on wars and now we hear the word "Compromise" again.  Were any cuts made during all that time? Hell no ! Will we get a break?   Are you kidding? We NEVER get a break. Congress and the President are determined to kill the economy again. You can't stop them.... at least for now you can't. We need a total voter revolt the likes of which have never been seen before. It's time to clean house.
 
 toad                             
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 7:56am
HOORAY for John McCain!!!  I knew there was a reason I voted for him.  Finally some common sense from him to his own party.  The old John McCain is back and I LOVE it!!Clap
 
 
KUDOS to John Boehner for getting tough with his caucus, too.  These tea party folks have a lot to learn.  They will be out as qucikly as they came in if they don't compromise in a sensible manner.  They will get Obama re--elected.  Insisting on tying a balanced budget to this debt ceiling mess is just plain stupid.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 11:45am

LOL

Those pesky Hobbits and their "crack political thinking" ...  LOL
 
Democracy is nothing, if not terribly frustrating.
Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 3:18pm
 
But anyway, dream... I'm still not convinced that Tea Party Republicans
actually will cave in to Boehner's demands and fall in line.
 
Boehner inherited a GOP the likes of which we've never seen.
Tea Party freshmen came in on a mandate and they're
wielding that mandate like a deflector shield...
these men and women do not care one bit
about the "party line".
 
Boehner hasn't been able to control them at all.
This is being a huge problem for him; he's being
viewed as ineffective by a lot of folks and it's killing him.
 
Meanwhile ... both sides just continue to play time-wasting politics.
It's a staring contest... each side seeing who can be made to blink first.
 
From the way it looks, both sides would rather let the government default
than be the party that backed down first.
 
But this seems the craziest idea to me... because when the government
DOES default, neither side will be able to claim victory!
That's what cracks me up!
 
These clowns actually think that not budging is going to make them
victorious in the end. They're very much mistaken.
Voters are going to freak out on both parties.
It's already happening.
 
As Toad says, there will be serious blowback.
And I can't wait to see that blowback happen.
That'd be the only reason I'd root for a default ...
to see them all tarred with this stupid, avoidable failure.
 
 
Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 3:44pm
          PLEASE take the time to listen & view this
 Video clip. With everybody taking pot shots at the
 so called "tea party" Republicans listen to this guy's
 solution to getting a balanced budget out of the freak
 show going on now in Washington.
 
 
   Is this too big a pill to swallow for these goofs
 on both sides???????? I wish everyone in America
 could see this bill proposal TODAY !!!!
 
 toad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 28 2011 at 9:42pm
 
Mack's idea is a clever one. On the surface, I like it.
But it will never fly, and here are two reasons why:
 
 
1)  Taking one penny out of every dollar spent in Washington -
      and ACCOUNTING for all those pennies - is impossible.
      Washington can't square ANY of it's accounts, even in the best of times.
      We're supposed to expect them to be accurate with tracking the
      cutting of millions of pennies from a gajillion different
      balance sheets and be accountable for it all?
      No chance. In a perfect world, maybe. But not in Washington.
 
 
2)   The Democrats won't go for it. Democrats don't want a balanced budget.
      As long as they can hold sway in the Senate Mack's bill is DOA.
 
 
 
   
Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 6:10am
These clowns actually think that not budging is going to make them
victorious in the end. They're very much mistaken.
Voters are going to freak out on both parties.
It's already happening.
 
 
YEPPERS!!  I agree, Jeff.  Boehner's bill is dead already.  These tea party folks are going to get Obama re-elected, and themselves booted out of office.  I bet many of them will be one term representatives.  Their stalemate actions prove they don't have a clue about how to operate within the belt way, which is something every new rep needs to learn.  They are stupid not to listen to a voice of reason like McCain's.
 
The D's are no better.  I get more disgusted with both parties with each passing day.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 10:51am
It really is amazing to me, dream.
 
So many of our politicians have decided that giving in is a crime.
The concepts of collaboration and compromise have lost their place
and are no longer practiced by a majority of congressmen and senators.
 
It seems nothing less than getting everything you want is acceptable anymore.
The only ones who understand how things get done are the
senior-most politicians, but they're not getting the
message across to the newbies and extremists. 
 
If this is really the situation on the ground on Capitol Hill, nothing is ever
going to get done again. Gridlock and brinksmanship will be the norm
and Washington will regularly grind to a halt for political pissing matches.
 
Let's fire 'em all and start again.
 
 
 
Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 11:27am
          Now now,Dream You are resorting to call these
dubious folks stupid & need I remind you, when I made a case for naming them that you chided me for it.
       The behavior of both parties is criminal. The
"Blame game" is now drifting to the freshman class to
 take heat away from the seniors. How childish can you get? This is grade school crap.
        I think I should point out something in this thread
 that needs to be said, and confirmed.
        THERE IS NO TEA PARTY 
       The tea party is myth. They [who] have no Washington headquarters, no phone reps,no party
 platform, no party head, and no direction, real or not.
       The tea party was a two word description for
 a rally formed to oppose big Government,taxes, spending,and rights destruction. These rallies were
 popular, and sprung up across America in various
 locations & numbers. The meetups were labeled "Tea Parties" in reference to the Boston tea party protest
 of historical fame.
         The establishment politicians in Washington, and their propagada media machine labeled these protesting
 Americans as "Tea Baggers" belonging to the "Tea Party." This labeling was done to discredit and smear their events, and place them in a defined "bad light."
      When it appeared that these protesting folks had
 a big enough following, some Republican politicians,
 and some special interest groups, attempted to
 infultrate their ranks & use their rallies to gain political
 ground & support.
          "Freedom works".."The Tea Party colalition" and
 other like named special interest groups tried to
 hyjack the movement, along with some high profile
 Republicans like Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman.
         Aspiring new politicians, with no defined
 followings attended these rallies to get some support
 and political traction. Many were elected to office in
 the 2010 election.
        The people who used the "tea party" rallies to
 get elected only need to worry about their districts
 voters and not some National Party dictating their
 every move. If they have been corrupted by special
 interest goons they must live or die with that decision.
      Some of this freshman class of elected representatives don't really care about the two-party
 rules, regulations and policies. They are like "lone Wolves."  The establishment,two party folks don't like
 these new kids on the block, and we are seeing more
 of this distain as days march on.
      Some of these "new kids" that haven't yet been
 corrupted are really independents who's agenda is
 listening to the will of the people who elected them.
 A novel thing in this day and age.
        Democrats and Republicans can't really blame
 anything on a party that doesn't exist in reality,
  but they sure will blame the myth !Wacko
 
 toad
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 11:40am
     Ron Paul was called the "father of the tea party"
 when it first burst on the scene. He was the main
 politician at the time that they trusted and supported.
     Since that movement has been hyjacked and corrupted, Ron Paul is keeping his distance from them.
     I think he has figured out that he doesn't need
 to be tied in anyway to a myth, or a movement that
 changes like the wind.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 12:18pm
Right you are, Jeff!!  I'm with you all the way.
 
Toad,  I accept the chiding.  It's deserved by me and them.LOL  I don't take back my description of how these folks are behaving.
 
The tea party coalition in the House is calling themselves the tea party.  It's common to do so, like the 3 Amigos - McCain, Lieberman & Graham, the gang of six, etc..  They may not have any formal headquarters, but they're gaining a name for themselves with their obstinate behavior.  I find nothing admirable about it.  A compromise solution must be found.  Until our system of democracy changes, they need to stop, listen and learn from the senior members who have been there for a while.  It's a messy system, and these newbies did not arrive in Washington knowing everything, or how to operate within the system they've chosen to be a part of.  They are being viewed by the public as obstructionists, not problem solvers, and they are putting the country and American lives in jeopardy with their obstinate behavior.  They may only have to worry about their own districts, which is true of all members, but I'm willing to bet there are people in their districts as disgusted with their actions as I am.  At the very least, they will face some tough opposition in their next election, and they should.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 29 2011 at 5:44pm
      "When people have nothing left to lose, they lose it." [Gerald Celente]
       I think we are under estimating how many people
 have lost their jobs, homes, and future because of big
 government financial decisions. Most of these people
 were lied to regarding their future from corrupt politicians,bankers,and the media. These people are
 "mad as hell, and aren't gonna take it anymore."
        They are looking for blood, and don't care who
 gets hurt. I don't think they really care if government
 blows up,shuts down, or whatever happens to it.
       The establishment political parties are scared to
 death of these folks and fear them. They should.
       Revenge can be a bitch, and the 2012 elections
 will make my point about how many people will feel
 the rath of the poor souls that got run over by
 government. It ain't gonna be pretty, kids.
       Heads are gonna roll, but it may not be the heads
 that most expect.
         I am reading hundreds of statements from people
 who claim to have NEVER voted before, but they will
 be voting in 2012. I don't think you will see "business
 as usual" in Washington after the 2012 election.
    Things are gonna be differant around the beltway....
 
 toad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 30 2011 at 8:05am
People are mad as hell at the gridlock,  partisan bickering, political posturing & stalemate over the debt ceiling mess.  It's already affecting people's 401K's and other things.  ABC News did an interesting experiment on last night's national news broadcast.  They put 5 ordinary Americans in a room together, gave them the figures and asked them to come up with a solution to the problem.  They had members of both political parties, a tea party member & an Independent work on a solution.  They did so within one hour.  They did things like raise the retirment age to 68 for Social Security, reduce the number of nuclear weapons stockpiled, and other things.  In other words, they COMPROMISED!!  This is what Americans are looking for the Congress & president to do.
 
The current crop of Republicans, tea party members & Democrats are not compromising and putting the country first.  They are playing politics - ALL of them.  In the meantime, the average American suffers while they do little more than make themselves look like fools.
 
The tea party coalition are the obstructionists in the House.  They will help Obama get re-elected, and many of them will be one term representatives.  They are not winning the PR fight on this issue, and the Democrats will make hay out of their behavior in the 2012 elections.  I believe mainstream Republicans will help in the effort to get rid of these people.   I know I will.  I will never cast a vote for a tea party member or anyone associated with them.
 
Operating in the belt way doesn't change, and never has under our system of democracy .  Only the people change and every newbie has to learn the methods of operation, which include the ability to compromise.   If they don't, they'll be out as quickly as they came in.  Americans have proven many times how fickle they can be.  They have given the tea party folks a chance.  They've blown it big time.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gene_Leone_Mix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 30 2011 at 2:43pm
Checking in here...
I've been watching the follies of the
"The Debt Ceiling Debate"
via CSPAN on line..


http://www.cspan.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/ (Click here)


Simply unreal, what is going on,
as America, already in the basement,
now teeters on the edge of a deep well to the abyss.

Well...

Washington might as well be wasting this valuable time
debating
"The Height of the Basement Ceilng Fan Debate".


To Raise It or Lower It?
Any way You go, it's still ugly!


Our weakened system of government has cleary been hijacked by special interest terrorists, and now all of US are all being held as hostages...
so... if this is a hostage situation,
should we lock them in, move in SWAT TEAMS, then cut the water, air-conditioning, electricity and don't let them out until they surrender to compromise and work this mess out for the GOOD of ALL OF US... like they were elected to do?

Just a thought. It's a shame, but it's hard to see how any of this is good for anybody.... but then again... wait...
if we play the ever popular "SoulfulPlanet - Follow the Money!" member trivia game...

... "Who" would actually benefit in some perverted way from a default?

Thoughts?




Toad, I think that YOU are right, here:
Toad wrote:

"...The TRUTH about all of this is quite differant than
what you are hearing from all these people.
     IT'S ALL ABOUT THE FED GETTING THEIR MONEY.
   Our money. REAL money. Money that was EARNED
through labor,blood and sweat.
They print money,backed with nothing,toss it into our economy and
foreign economies and then sit back and wait for it
to come back to them in interest payments from people
who were forced to earn it through their work.
      The more they print, the less the currency is worth.
It's a inflation machine that is now out of control.
        The FED WILL GET PAID by hook or crook.
    If the ceiling isn't raised the FED will raise interest
rates on ALL outstanding debt. In other words.....
   EXTORTION. LOAN SHARK EXTORTION. ... ... ... "

from Toad's Post on page 1 of this thread

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 30 2011 at 9:34pm
         Dream,
       Take a minute to listen to this discussion. The whole thing.
 
  
       Now, bare this in mind.... The Dems shot down
 Ryan's plan, shot down "Cut,cap, and balance." shot
 down Boehner's latest plan, and Finally Reid sends a bill to the house and it gets shot down over there.
     Rand Paul countered with a proposal to pass
 Reid's bill with no changes other than a provision to
 make the Dems entertain a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution. Reid shot that down.
    Connie Mack of Flordia has a bill that would make
 them save one penny from every dollar spent on this
 debt ceiling and budget....and that savings would balance the budget in six years. Ron Paul suggests keeping the budget spending at the same level as
 it is this year, and that would balance the budget in six years.
          Now I ask you... Who are the obstructionists?
 Where is the gridlock? Who won't compromise ????
         The President has proposed NOTHING.
      The "tea party" freshmen are giving these people
 plans to balance the budget in six years and they
 continue to shoot down those attempts. ALL OF THEM.
       Are these Dems so intent to tax hell out of the
 rich that they won't listen to anything else?
        Boehner's plan didn't cut spending..It raised it,
 AND STILL the Dems shot it down. It didn't get one
 stinking Dem vote in the entire House.
       Forget all that, and let's Blame the tea party
 new guys on the block... sheesh........
       Remember this also: Giethner knew all this crap was coming up in MARCH of this year and between him
 and our golfing President, they couldn't get a plan
 together in a attempt to fix it. MARCH.
         So what does our President do? He comes on the tube, scares the hell out of Grandma, and he and
 Geithner scare the hell out of the Market with lies
 about the situation. Pelosi Has Grandma thinking the
 fucking world is gonna blow up.
         I see a lot of "obstruction" going on, but It's
 not with the tea party newbees. Dead
 
 toad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 30 2011 at 9:54pm
All this continues to tell me is that the vested interests in Washington
are still running the show, and will demand their price. Ain't never gonna change.
 
Doesn't matter who you vote for. What you think you're voting for isn't coming back to you.
 
Rage against the machine.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 30 2011 at 10:03pm
     Three things Happened with Carter in the White House. Gas prices doubled,Interest rates went to 23%
 and the Islamic world started hating us.
       Fast forward to now....
 Gas prices are going up, Interest rates will be going up,
 and Most all in the Muslim world hate us.
       David Rockefeller must have a party goin' on
  somewhere....
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 31 2011 at 6:08am
Toad,
 
You hit on the very reason I say the tea party folks are obstructionists.  They've tied the debt ceiling issue into a balanced budget amendment, and did it at the last minute to boot.  That's just plain wrong IMHO.  A balanced budget amendment should be discussed - at length by the Congress - but as a separate issue.  It will take a great deal of time and committee work to do it right.  Their insistance on attaching it to this issue, when the country faces the default deadline, is blackmail pure and simple.  Their attitude is to get all they want, or allow the country to get into serious trouble.  What newbies need to learn is they can't have it all, any more than the other side can.  Congress and democracy just don't work that way.  During this process, they have weakened their own Speaker of the House, which will hurt their own causes ultimately.  They can't see the forest through the trees.  They have refused and voted down just as many proposals from the Democratic side.  Both sides have been playing tit for tat.
 
I have said repeatedly I am disgusted with BOTH parties on the debt ceiling issue.  Both are guilty of partisan bickering, political posturing and hurting the ordinary American.  I've heard the rhetoric from both sides, and my BP rises every time I hear the party lines.  Re Obama, I'm not thrilled with him either.  However, he's right to force the Congress to come up with the proposals.  It's their responsibility under the statutes to authorize raising the debt ceiling.  If he put a written proposal on the table, it would be just one more piece of useless legislation they would waste time shooting down.  It's up to his party's leadership in the Congress to put proposals on the table, and they've done so.   You can be sure Obama's fingerprints are all over those pieces of legislation.  Obama has had plenty of sit down meetings with the leadership of both parties voicing what he will and will not accept.  He's also smart politically to do it this way.
 
As I watch the Today Show this a.m., supposedly they're close to a deal, but we've heard that before, haven't we.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 31 2011 at 9:09am
         Here is the Connie Mack plan explained.
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkS8TWcJx7M
 
   How can cutting 38 billion in spending be such a hard thing to do in a year, when we are spending over a
 trillion on the military every year?
         Again, listen to the Dems on MSNBC insist on
 taxing to generate more money.
       Mack's proposed bill doesn't require a balanced
 budget amendment. Freezing spending to this years
 levels wouldn't require a balanced budget amendment.
     If you or I could barrow more money from a loan
 shark to pay off our credit bills every time they came
 due, and never had to pay that debt off, we could
 really have some fun before we die. Ya think?
    We would only pass that debt off to our living
 family. How cool would that be, huh? OuchConfusedWacko
      If the spending won't stop now, then when will it?
     The only solution that both parties can agree to
 is tax everybody more, by one method or another.
   What ever deal they reach this week won't stop
 any spending at all.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 31 2011 at 9:29am
That's true from what I heard on "Meet The Press" and other shows this morning.  Apparently, the deal is two-tiered.  They raise the debt ceiling now so we don't default, and the spending cuts are slated to be reviewed and decided upon by some super committee.  The cuts would begin in 2013 - conveniently for both parties, after the 2012 election.
 
One tea party member voiced his frustration with being sent to Washington to stop spending and cut programs, however, his constituents say cut programs, but not my program.  He's getting mixed messages from his constituents, and I'm sure that applies to other members of Congress as well.  Polls show people do not want Medicaid and Medicare cuts.  Two-thirds of the federal budget is payments to people in these programs. That's where the big money is.  We're at a real crossroads here, and it won't be easy to work our way out of it.
 
Democrats are against the government continuing to give big subsidies to oil companies while Republicans want cuts in social programs.  This super committee, whoever they turn out to be, have their work cut out for them.
 
The key to the 2012 election will be the Independent voters.  It will be interesting to see where the fall in all this.  They are centrist voters who sometimes vote center left, and sometimes center right.  Where will they vote in 2012... 
 
I've said before I do not and will not watch MSNBC or Fox News.  Both are too biased for me.
 
dream 
 
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