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Gene_Leone_Mix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gene_Leone_Mix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2008 at 8:32pm
I don't watch much regular TV,
I'd never heard of this show before tonight
ABC's Boston Legal...
Has anybody ever seen this clip?

Wow!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2008 at 5:21am
    Oh Geno..
 Spader sums it all up. Leave up to you to find such such a pearl
as the above clip. Bravo, my brother!!!!
 
Still Laughing,
toad
Down, and nearly out in Detroit......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2008 at 4:52pm
Leave it to you Geno to come up with this when I have a cold. Smile
 
Mixey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardofely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 05 2008 at 11:45am
I was in Scientology for four years and got a lot of benefit from it! I quit smoking, stayed teetotal for that period, gained a lot of confidence back after a very bad patch in my life and I learned a lot!

I just enjoyed watching the David Miscavige videos here, so thanks to Gene, for sharing them!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 07 2008 at 5:31pm
bardofely. . .
 
I'm glad you had a good experience with Scientology.  Hubbard tech has a lot of truth in it.  It works well if administered properly.  However, if it's mishandled, problems occur.
 
The lie... lies in the mishandling. 
 
Present time problems occur on a continual basis, due to the mishandling, which amounts to mo money mo money mo money for the church.
 
When corruption sets into any organization, good things don't go right... they go bad, and members become PTS to the organization itself.
 
As I said... I'm glad you were able to gain some good wins out of it. 
 
It's good to see you here! Smile
 
Mixey 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardofely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 08 2008 at 3:37am
I am actually back in touch with Scientology after a representative phoned me up from Saint Hill and I discovered that I was never declared but removed from the mailing list as I had requested. In other words the door is open for me to go back if I wish, although at present I do not choose to do so. I had a very long conversation with this person and he agreed with me on my grievances and reasons why I became disillusioned.
What I realised in the course of the conversation was that I was able to talk using Scientology terms as easily now as 18 years ago - in other words the study tech worked well and I remembered what I learned. I also realised that my disagreement in the past was not with individuals in Scientology that I knew but with the organisation as a whole that in my experience had not lived up to what was promised by Hubbard's policies and writings.

There are very good people in Scientology and I know its tech can and does work. As Miscavige says it got rid of his asthma. With me it got me off cigarettes. This sort of stuff you are bound to be grateful for and are some small examples of how it can work for people and why people choose to be in Scientology.

I have been updating myself on the subject by watching all the videos available both the pro-Scientology and the anti of which YouTube has loads, many of which are just plain stupid and clearly put togther by people who know very little about the subject and are just joining some bash Scientology trend!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 08 2008 at 4:48am

I agree, bardofely...  there are a lot of good people in Scientology.

I would encourage you to keep your own words close at hand:
 
"I also realized that my disagreement in the past was not with individuals in Scientology that I knew but with the organization as a whole that in my experience had not lived up to what was promised by Hubbard's policies and writings."

Yes... the tech works to a large degree.  However, if one is in receipt of false purposes, invalidation, wrong indications, etc. from for instance, a disingenuous case supervisor... that's not a good thing in my opinion. 

Most of the people who really understand what's up, are not bashing Scientology, or the people who are in it.  They simply remain off of the sinking ship.
 
Mixey

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gene_Leone_Mix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 9:34am

Wow... looks like the Information Police have banned the Religion Police...
Play nice, children... and remember playing god from either side
is always a tough gig...


~~~
Wikipedia Bans Church of Scientology
By Ryan Singel   May 29, 2009 | 2:18 pm
"Wikipedia has banned the Church of Scientology from editing any articles. Itís a punishment for repeated and deceptive editing of articles related to the controversial religion. The landmark ruling comes from the inner circle of a site that prides itself on being open and inclusive.

In a 10-1 ruling Thursday, the siteís arbitration council voted to ban users coming from all IP addresses owned by the Church of Scientology and its associates, and further banned a number of editors by name. The story was first reported by The Register.

Self-serving Wikipedia edits are hardly new. Wired.com readers pulled in an award for discovering the most egregious Wikipedia whitewashes by corporation and government agencies, but this is the first time the site has taken such drastic actions to block those edits.

And the edits are unlikely to stop, now that the user-created encyclopedia has become one of the netís most popular sites and is often the top result for searches on a subject. Being able to massage an entry about oneself or oneís company has proven difficult to resist, even for... ... ... " Wikipedia Bans Church of Scientology (full article continued here)

~~~

and........
for more related "playing god" vs "playing god" splendid reading:

wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology
"ó Wikipedia ban of Church of Scientology IP addresses ó
The Arbitration Committee of the Wikipedia internet encyclopedia decided in May 2009 to restrict access to its site from Church of Scientology IP addresses, to prevent self-serving edits by Scientologists.[265][266] A "host of anti-Scientologist editors" were topic-banned as well.[265][266] The committee concluded that both sides had "gamed policy" and resorted to "battlefield tactics", with articles on living persons being the "worst casualties"....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ok... just a thought here, but... wouldn't simply having an
"Opposing Views" Section
for all articles on Wikipedia and on all Scientology Sites
... it could easily solve the slippery slope problems of
Zip, Ban & Delete and the
Information Police vs the Religion Police type of problems?

Ya know... just Write what Ya believe... take full responsibility and credit for your words and thoughts... then let us stupid humans figure it all out...
Hmmm... might be way too easy?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MickeyMac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2009 at 11:45am
No offense to anyone here but I dont buy into any of that scientology stuff. It reminds me too much of a cult, and mind control.   No thanks



One member who was a big follower of scientology and L. Ron Hubbard was Charles Manson. In fact a lot of the views Manson preached to his followers came from scientology. I am not say that it leads to mass murder, just mentioned that at one time Manson was totally into this, and one of his techniques to gain control over his followers was mind control.
Anybody else missing George Bush besides me?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s. p. a. t. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 2:35am
That was an interesting read Geno! 
 
So Scientology zipped Wikipedia and Wikipedia zipped Scientology.  lol  What a mess!
 
Where's our Scientology member who signed up awhile ago?  I thought she was going to come over here and contribute to this thread.
 
What was her name?  I'll send her an e-mail... bardofely too.
 
From the zip ban delete viewpoint, I don't agree with either side banning or editing.  I think you made a good point, Geno.
 
As far as Manson and Scientology... I think there are a lot of really horrible people who subscribe to a particular religion... How about THE MAFIA for instance.  If Catholics were given a bad name because of The Mafia, I think it'd be an unfair label to put on all Catholics.
 
Mind control is used in many situations, usually where money or other favors are desired.  Some forms of advertising could be likened to the Jim Jones cult too... poor cool aid, by the way... except that no food substance on the earth could possibly come across those colors naturally.  lol
 
Mixey on as S. P. A. T. for the moment.
 
Disclaimer... My personal Mixey views do not necessarily reflect the views of the other members of our Soulful Planet Administration Team. 
 
Mixey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardofely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 3:02am
Scientology can be very useful and much of it does work and it has very many very good people in it just like any other religion.

Personally, as someone who spent several years in it, I get fed up of all the bickering against and about it by people who have no experience in Scientology at all. The media is guilty of publishing rubbish and lies about it just as the media publishes rubbish and lies about so many things.

Scientology has rules that Hubbard gave on dealing with just about anything and I assume that these rules have been applied in dealing with whatever Wikipedia did.

I have no more to say on the matter!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s. p. a. t. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 3:27am
Bardofely... !  lol  I didn't even e-mail you.  Thanks for coming over.
 
I agree with you in terms of Scientology and its usefulness in dealing with the ups and downs of life.  I also agree that there are a ton of lies being spread around about the organization.
 
Scientology does have rules that Hubbard spelled out for how to deal with some of these ignorant types.
 
However, I personally part from organizations that attempt to moderate my desire to communicate.
 
I think that a better way to deal with evil purposes, is not to delete them.  That falls under the heading of invalidation, which Scientology doesn't like to begin with... delivering wrong items, etc.
 
People misunderstand.  I'd rather see Wikipedia and Scientology be more specific about what's a lie and what's not... in the open, instead of invalidating the public's ability to make up their own minds.
 
Hubbard had rules.  Maybe those rules need to be updated, like in other organizations that move with the times.  David Miscavige doesn't seem to mind updating the books, yet Hubbard listed that kind of activity as a high crime against the church, if I'm correct. 
 
Mixey on as S. P. A. T. (but giving my own personal views at the moment)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardofely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 4:00am
I agree with you and think it all should be there so people can make up their own minds but I would extend this to out in the world at large where we very seldom get the WHOLE truth about anything, just part of it and angled according to personal or organisational agendas.

Yes, you are right that Hubbard's work was not to be altered in any way and in fact people should be referred directly to whatever he said or wrote. Otherwise it is squirreling as I am guilty of here because I cannot refer you directly to the tech.

Ron trusted Miscavige as someone who could do his job.

I have been personally informed that updates were done to clean up mistakes that were in the texts when they were originally published when for example there were bits left out. Yes, you might ask well, why weren't these mistakes spotted and cleaned up then and I don't know, I assume that Ron didn't have the time to check through everything and would have had people who were supposed to do so on his behalf who failed to obey standard tech. I found examples of non standard tech being delivered when I was involved and it was one reason I became disillusioned. I personally think that Hubbard must have had times he was frustrated and annoyed with his supporters who didn't do what they were supposed to do. This would have resulted in him having to write even more policies and ethics rules and penalties.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 4:46am
Thank you for your thoughtful response bardofely...
 
I figured I better post under my own name instead of Soulful Planet Administration Team, so as not to offend any of our S. P. A. T. team, as my views might not reflect theirs.
 
I've tried to look into as many religions and viewpoints on this planet as possible.  I think that it's good to understand a person's views in order to communicate better. 
 
First off...
You're not "guilty" (labeling anyone for free thinking as being "guilty" isn't very nice) of squirreling... and you CAN refer directly to the tech, if asked.
 
Here are Ron's words (I'm not sure of that... but that's what is said) made into a video.  I agree with all of it regarding love and how to treat people:
 
 
Now my question is...
Why would David Misgavige delete Mary Sue Hubbard's name from the dedication section in some of her Husband's books?
 
Ron was in LOVE with his wife.  He took the time to dedicate several of his books to her, because of her help and love, etc.  Why is that show of love now deleted?  That to me is a show of insanity, like the video describes.
 
Most older Scientologists, when asked this question, will say the Mary Sue Hubbard was supressive to the church and to her husband.  This may or may not be true... but I as a thinking person, feel that the one who deletes and judges is supressive.
 
Deletion and banning and ordered disconnection from family members, etc, makes me PTS to the CoS.
 
I really wish it wasn't that way, because as you say... there are a lot of really nice people in Scientology.  There are also a lot of people who are very nice, who have been supressed by Scientology... and if asked, I can easily point to them.
 
In terms of standard tech remaining standard, I agree that if something works... don't change it.  I don't agree with... if something works better, don't change it because it isn't standard.
 
There's a lot of that thinking in the martial arts world too... traditional moves, being better than more recent systems, simply because they are "traditional"... i.e. "standard".  That being said... the whole idea of martial arts, beyond the spiritual is, mame and destroy as a way of achieving peace... which seems nuts to begin with, but the Monks had to defend their ability to exist. 
 
"The way"... is not through deleting in physicality or in words, IMO.
 
Mixey
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardofely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 5:23am
Thank you for digging out that excellent video!

I didn't know about Mary Sue being deleted from dedications or called an SP. It is for David Miscavige to answer that question and, I would suggest on an ethics level between him and Ron and Mary Sue if it is correct that Miscavige was responsible for that action.

If Miscavige, is acting on Ron's behalf, then he must make decisions as best he can and take whatever action he feels is right.

If I was still in Scientology I would perhaps ask him why this was done and would then have a fuller picture. What does he say about all this?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 7:06am
Thank you.  I like that video too!
 
I requested a meeting with David Misgavige, Bardofely, several times. I was told by some church OT 8s, who were in a position to be able to set that up, that it was impossible.
 
Meeting with the head of any organization should not be made impossible.  They should have welcomed my interest, because I was interested to know.  That's what Scientology is supposed to be about... knowing how to know.  My way of knowing... is to go to the top and simply ask.
 
A few questions off the top of my head...
 "A History of Man"... "This work is dedicated to Mary Sue Hubbard who helped"
 "The Book of E-Meter Drills" ... "basic drills by L. Ron Hubbard complied by Mary Sue Hubbard"
 
In some of the books, wording has been changed, within the text.  It's too bad... sort of like hearing "Imagine" by John Lennon, and now that he's gone, what if the lyrics had been changed, and nobody now knows what the man originally wrote or sang.  Kind of an evil purpose, to believe that one has the right to delete someone else's words or memory. 
 
This is nothing new.  History is falsified almost immediately every day.  This is a serious epidemic that I refer to as Zip/Ban/Delete. (ZBD) since diseases seem to need to be referred to in a shortened way.
 
I find it sad that the CoS, as an organization, has deleted people out of their history.  Mary Sue Hubbard died fairly recently, yet I doubt if any Scientologists knew about it. It really doesn't matter what kind of a person she was. I have no clue, except that I know she existed.
 
It's sort of like... does anyone know what happened to Mary Magdalene?  If Jesus and Mary were so important, why wouldn't everyone know the answer to that simple question?  No money in it I suppose, or possibly a little too much truth carried in seeing the whole picture.
 
When the head of any organization takes over, hopefully they speak for the good of the whole, with respect to whomever came before.  They can't ever speak for someone else, unless they're saying that they're channeling that person... or in receipt of something of that person that the OT levels are probably better auditing out.
 
I think that it would be much more kind, for any changes in wording to be viewed as changes, and simply state why they've been changed.  Whatever someone else wrote would stand clearly in the open, for all to view.
 
When an organization makes a huge deal of not changing anything, it causes people to look for the lie.  If there are no lies... the organization becomes stronger.  If there are lies and misrepresentations, members will go elsewhere, and sadly lose the benefit of whatever good there was to be had.
 
Nobody gets deleted or banned here on Soulful Planet.  Members are given the tools to make their own decisions to ignore or read whomever they want. The only time there is a deletion, is when a computer virus is attached to a signup, or if there's a legal order to do so.  If I started allowing our Soulful Planet Admin Team to make judgements about people's posts, this place would clear out in a matter of a day.
 
Actually this is making me think a bit.  The CoS sees some people or their words as being the equivalent of a computer virus... They're infected in a sense.  I've made allowances to delete here based on this, and I'm very much against banning and deletions.
 
hummmm  I think I need to rid the signups of the virus and keep the membership info intact, in order to be really true to my feelings.  There's not much I can do about a legal order, however. That's unfortunately bigger than I am. 
 
Wow... that felt pretty productive.  One step closer to being a happy idiot.  lol
 
Mixey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardofely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 7:28am
I hear what you are saying, Mixey! When I was involved I used to write to Guillaume Lesvere (CoS ED Int) and always got replies from him so I assumed that communication with the top members was still being practised as it should be.

From what you have told me here I am glad I haven't made any more effort to resume my Bridge or I am sure I would have been asking more questions that might have gone unanswered!

Speaking of deletions, I have a friend who has been deleted and banned from YouTube, David Icke forums and Outlaw News forums as well as being accused of many things I know he is not including a CIA employee and a paid disinformation agent. JazzRoc managed to be too much for the Icke followers and Andre and friends at Outlaw News, which actually did surprise me.  JazzRoc is now famous on the Internet as a chemtrail debunker and I am one of the only people who have taken on board what he was saying and now happen to agree with him. In doing that I was accused of all sorts of untruths too by chemtrail-believers.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 8:02am
From what I understand, people used to write to LRH all of the time, and would get a response.  Those were possibly good days for the CoS, when it was purportedly a think tank of people, sharing their philosophies and whatever music they wanted to make, so to speak.  I think it took on a paranoid face somewhere down the line. I know they were perused by the FBI pretty relentlessly.  This kind of thing makes people flip out. Too bad, but probably still infected with that fear motive.
 
I'm sorry David Icke was banned Bardofely.  He makes a lot of sense on a load of different levels.  I'd probably have more than a few questions regarding the reptiles aspect possibly, but I'm willing to entertain that viewpoint too.  He's welcome over here anytime.  I really don't understand why people are afraid of communication, regardless of what the topic is.
 
I admit that I'm not quite sure of all that's being said about chemtrails (exhaust from airplanes???), but I'm interested to know.  Maybe you could put up a thread pointing the way. 
 
Thanks,
 
Mixey
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardofely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 8:09am
Yes, I will start a thread for JazzRoc and then we can see how he fares on your forums- thank you!

BTW, JazzRoc got an online reply from chemtrail guru William Thomas but Thomas then locked the thread so that JR was unable to question him any further.

If chemtrails are a lie as JazzRoc maintains then he is actually doing people a favour in removing a falsehood from theri lives and a source of fear and worry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2009 at 8:50am
Cool Bardofely...
 
It should be an interesting test.  People present themselves however they want over here... and whatever they present stays, unless they wish to edit themselves.   
 
We may not agree with each other all of the time, but we maintain the right to agree to disagree. 
 
Information is information. 
 
I look forward to it.
Thanks,
mixey
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