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Iran and You

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toad View Drop Down
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    Posted: Dec 28 2011 at 7:20am
                   AMERICA:
        Your Congress is close to starting
  World War III. They have passed international
 banking sanctions against the country of Iran,
 and are sending it to your current President for his
 signature to bring it into law.
        The value of the Iranian currency has lost about
 thirty percent of it's value in the last few days.
     The banking sanctions will force the Iranian
 government to approach China and Russia to buy all
 their oil,goods, and any thing else they trade in.
      The Japanese and other nations depend on Iranian
 oil to run their countries. These sanctions will throw
 them into panic mode and rip the international oil
 market to shreds.
       The Iranian Government is stating that they
 will shut down the oil passing through the Straights
 of Hormus by shipping, and this will effect oil
 shipments ALL OVER THE GLOBE. Dead
        These banking sanctions will result in war.
   The Chinese have already stated that they will
 back Iran in any conflict that involves the U.S.
 attacking Iran with our military. The Russians have
 made similair statements. Dead
           This thread and post is no joke. Our Congress
 is playing dangerous games with our nation.
   If Obama approves these sanctions we are on the
  path to World War III, and it will start very soon.
       Your lame-brain Congressmen and Senators
 are taking this country into a situation that will
 kill millions of people very quickly if it is not reversed.
      If you don't know whats going on with this
 situation, you better learn about it soon.
       Economic sanctions against Japan was the
 catalyst that ended with the Japanese attacking
 the U.S. at Pearl Harbor. This Iranian situation is
 just as serious, if not more.
 
 toad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2011 at 6:11pm
I have to ask why you think the U.S. is responsible for this, Toad.  Iran has been threatening to close the Straights for some time now.  They're already talking about gas and oil prices skyrocketing here in the U.S. as a result.  We should stand by and do nothing??!!
 
I can't believe you're blaming the U.S. yet again for the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor.  PULEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE on both counts.
 
dream
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2011 at 8:22pm
        Every Arab country that sells the U.S. oil
 hates Iran. [It's a religious thing] Iran is surrounded
 by people who hate them,including all the U.S. military
 bases that totally surround them. The U.S. provided Iran with the materials to build nuclear reactors. The
 U.S. made money doing this. Was that a wise thing to do? We set up Gad-Daffy the same way.
     Now we want Iran to give up all it's nuclear
 plans, and scrap it's program like Lybia. How did that
 work out for Gad-Daffy? Who is running Lybia now?
    How is our Egypt policy working out?
  Our sanctions against Iraq killed a million civilians,
 and we want to do the same to Iran. It's not some
 other country doing this Dream..It's US.
      What business do we have cutting the financial
 throat of any nation on this planet? Who gives us
 that authority by any laws anywhere?
      Do we really need to provoke Iran [like japan]
 with sanctions untill they attack us? It worked for
 FDR,[ask any Japanese historian] and If we keep
 poking a stick at Iran, I can assure you they will
 retaliate in some manner that won't be good.
  Why not let the Arab world and Israel deal with Iran?
     Iran doesn't threaten the U.S. at all. Our military
 could crush them. The Chinese and Russians won't
 allow that to happen, and they have said so.
      I maintain that the neo-cons and CFR goofs in
 Washington are pushing for a war with Iran that
 could very well ignite WWIII.
    If we provoke it, our "allies" will run for the hills,
 and leave us on our own.
     A land war with China & Russia,on their turf will
 be the end for America. Do we really need to go there?
    I say we leave Iran alone, and develop our own
 oil resources here in America.
     All terrorist threats are coming from the Mid-East.
 It's time we get out of that rat's nest for good.
 
 toad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 28 2011 at 9:18pm
        Does this guy have any credibility?
 
 
 toad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2011 at 6:14am
Toad,
 
Japanese historians don't cut it with me.  American historians do, but not revisionist historians who rewrite historical facts and come up with zany conspiracy theories.  American historians like Steven Ambrose are credible to me.
 
Wesley Clark does not have a lot of credibility with me.  He was exposed by many of his peers, and when that happened, he lost most the credibility he had.  Everyone knows he had a beef against Bush and his comments were biased at the least, and conflict with the facts at best.
 
We cannot extracate ourselves from all the problems in the Middle East, nor should we.  As you know, I do not support Ron Paul's positions on foreign policy, and I never will.
 
I'm all for developing our own oil, however, it will take years to do so, and there are no guarantees there is enough oil to support our needs or dependency.  Environmentalists and others are against developing oil in Alaska, for instance.  Until that happens, we are dependent on foreign oil and we have to do what's necessary to get it.  We're also discovering wind power and some of these other alternatives do not work.
 
dream
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2011 at 10:18am
Here's a LONG list of what some crtics think of Wesley Clark:
 
 
This contains a number of articles about the retired General.  Talk about a self-serving hypocrite.LOL
 
dream
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2011 at 12:53pm
          Dream,
     The link you posted [above] about Wesley Clark
  proves something I have known about the military
 for over forty years. It involves the basic structure
 of the military system. THE CHAIN OF COMMAND
 
    There are a select few ways to gain rank in the
 military, and there are two distinct structures they
 employ to operate.
            It is a CASTE system
      If you join the military as a civilian, you are
 installed into the "non-commisioned officer" or NONCOM
 section of the system. There are levels of rank you can
 attain as non-coms, but as a non-com you have no
 direct control of military operations, other than rank
 you attain over others in the non-com troops below
 your rank. The highest non-com rank in the Army is
  becoming a "Sargent Major".
 
                     The OFFICERS
      You can become a officer, or enter into the military
 as a officer in a few select ways. [My explination of this
 process will focus on the Army because of my Army
 expirience.]
        The method with the most prestige,or political
 clout within the Army branch is to apply to the
 West Point Military Academy. If approved to enter this
 school,upon graduation, you can enter the Army as
 a commisioned 2nd. lieutenant. [the lowest officer rank.]  You can also attend ROTC classes at other
 colleges, and after attending and passing them you
 can enter the Army as a commisioned 2nd.lieutenant.
  [These ROTC officers don't get much respect
 compared to the West Point officers.]
     The third way you can become a officer is to
 join the Army,become a non-com and then attend
 the internal Army officer canidate school, [a six month
 cram course] and leave as a commisioned 2nd. lieutenant. [ this method is usually employed during
 war time, when there is a pressing need for new officers.]
             As in any caste system you only gain a
 higher rank and pay grade by kissing ass or having
 political connections. Heros that gain rank by some
 heroic act or acts are very rare.
        Once you attain the rank of General, that is when
 your pedigree,ties to West Point, and political connections come into play when seeking higher ranks in
 the rare air of Generals. Those that end up in the
 Pentagon, or Joint Chiefs are more politicians than
 officers.
              If any of these Generals speak up and
 go against their peers, rock the boat in any presidential
 administration, or embarrass anyone in this clan they
 get booted out, asked to leave, or sidelined.
      This caste system by nature is corrupt as hell.
   Is there any honesty or honor among these people, or are they mostly like the politicans they serve.
   I don't trust them to protect my best interests. Period.
  They are wasting America's money and resources
 on ventures that do not secure or protect the security
 of our country. IMHO
        
            Any actions that provoke or attack Iran
 will come from the U.S. State Dept. or the President.
   Our Commander-in-chief will make the ultimate
 decision on deploying troops to Iran. I think he is
 in over his head, and we are in great danger at this
 time. More than any time in our history.
 
 toad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2011 at 2:30pm
We've been in great danger in this country since the Clinton administration when the first warnings came that we would be attacked on our own soil by Muslim extremists like Al Quaida .  Those warnings were ignored at the time because President Clinton sided with Sec. of State Madeline Albright instead of Sec. of Defense William Cohen.  Along came 9/11.  Let me say before you start in on all the conspiracy theories blaming Bush and the U.S. for those attacks,  I do not buy into any of them.
 
Iran has been an unstable threat in the region for years, and with the possibility of them developing nuclear weapons to attack Israel, the U.S. must stand by our allies.  We also must stop them from closing the Straights because of our dependency on foreign oil.  I'm no more anxious to go to war than the next person, but I believe Obama has turned into a foreign policy president.  It's one thing to state positions and make promises on the campaign trail, and quite another once a president takes office and gets hit with all the realities facing him/her.  I believe Obama and Sec. of State Hillary Clinton have done right by the U.S. in most instances.
 
The military caste system doesn't excuse the behavior of Wesley Clark.  He opened his mouth, countered things he said in the past, and got caught spewing false information.  That's what lead to his downfall and loss of credibility.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2011 at 3:11pm
 
The US had better be very careful with Iran.
 
We will not be able to force a regime change in Iran quite so easily
as we did in Libya. Our leaders had best not thump their chests too hard
and get any big ideas. Russia and China have a great deal more riding on
a new political outcome in Iran, and will not accept NATO strong-arming
in Iran the way they did with Libya. They're watching the US very closely,
and if we start a conflict there, it could get VERY messy and complicated
very fast, because of Russian interests.
 
Iran is encircled by NATO. Totally outgunned by Israel's superior forces. 
Which means Iran's so-called nuclear threat is non-existant. A fantasy.
None of Iran's big business partners (Russia & China) would allow Iran to
get "out of control" anyway! That'd be bad for business!
 
Even if Iran WAS stupid enough to mess with Israel, they're facing the
biggest war hawk in the world in Netanyahu- an opponent who would
LOVE to drop the big one on Iran and vaporize his enemy. Ahmadinejad
knows that very well. He may be an asshole but he's not stupid enough to attack Israel.
 
Iran's enormous educated middle class does not want war. They want peace
and prosperity. They are trying to ride out these tough times, hoping their
country won't be destroyed in war like Iraq, hoping to see a day where
more moderate leadership takes hold. 
 
US leaders need to remember that. But they are being pig-headed.
This is an election year, and overly ambitious war hawks are making too
much noise about Iran. We've already frozen out Iran's Central Bank; there
are no good options left for squeezing Iran that we aren't already trying.
We need to leave them alone and let Iran's people take back their country.
Because They'll do that much better, and without as much loss of life than a
NATO invasion will.
 
 
 
 
 
Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2011 at 5:12pm
       There can be no conspiracy argument that the
 military follows the orders given to it from the
 standing President..at ANY given point in time.
       The President controls the major actions of the
 military, just like the mayor of most cities control the
 major actions of it's police force.
      Every President forms his administration from people he hand picks to serve him. No one sneaks
 into a seat at that administration table.
         
        These Presidential administrations control
  U.S. foreign policy. ALL OF IT. No conspiracies involved.
     We have been involved in non-stop, un-declared
 wars since the end of World War II. All of these
 wars supported by one past President or another.
     The big question is, how many of these wars have
  we won? How many of these wars were fought against
 a country that was a direct threat to the United States?
      Who are the people in these various administrations
 that can claim to KNOW who we are supposed to
 hate and who we are led to go to war against?
      Most all of these wars were un-declared, so
 Congress was not involved in the decision for war.
   The responsibility fell on the administrations.
       I have stated on this forum that all of presidential
 administrations since Truman have been stacked full
 of people belonging to non-public,closed membership
 political orginizations that are not up for public
 examination or debate.
      How are the people of America supposed to trust
 administration members that come from these
 closed membership groups like the Council on Foreign
 Relations and the Tri-Lateral Commision?
    Where are the "checks and Balances" that are
  guaranteed in our Constitution for these groups?
     When these groups are brought up in political
 discussions the word "conspiracy" always pops up
 too. Why is that? The media won't discuss them, or
 if they do they pass over their importance like it is
 no big thing...nothing to concern yourself with.
    When do groups like the CFR and Tri-Lateral
 become real and not some "conspiracy" myth?
      The Council on Foreign Relations is now calling
 for the bombing of Iran..as soon as possible.
   With Barack Obama's administration,loaded with
 CFR members, and Sec.of State Clinton being a
 member, when are Americans supposed to get
 alarmed about the possibility of war with Iran????
  This is no conspiracy..this is for real.
 
 toad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 29 2011 at 11:08pm
       ABC foreign policy article:
 
 
     Please read the comments after the article.
 
 toad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 30 2011 at 7:08am
Toad, my reference to conspiracy theories was in regard to blaming Bush and the U.S. government for the blow up of the buildings, etc..  I don't buy into those theories at all.  I think you misread what I said.
 
As you know, I don't buy into Ron Paul's criticisms of the Tri-lateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations either.  I don't buy into or believe Ron Paul's views on much of anything, period.
 
dream
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