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HILLARY TEARS UP - What Does It Mean???

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dream207 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jan 07 2008 at 12:28pm
Here's a clip that was on the evening news.  Hillary in New Hampshire today.
 
Do you think this was contrived by her campaign to gain "sympathy" and make her more likeable since she's down in the polls and losing voters she counted on to Obama???  
 
Or, do you think it could be simple exhaustion??
 
How do you think it will affect her campaign???  It's already made youtube.  There will be lots of coverage and conversations about her mini breakdown.
 
Remember what happened to Maine's Ed Muskie during his presidential campaign, after journalists thought he cried on the steps on the Manchester Union Leader while defending his wife, Jane.
 
Is there a double standard here??  Is it O.K. for a female candidate to cry and not O.K. for a male to do the same??
 
dream
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Sue W. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sue W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 07 2008 at 12:35pm

You can't contrive that kind of lump in the throat speech, if she could she would deserve an Oscar.

It's partly exhaustion, I'd say, but I think she truly is frustrated at the way experience has suddenly been thrown under the truck in favor of the new mantra, "change." As Bill Richardson wisely put it in the Dem debate on ABC, change in and of itself isn't always a good thing.  Change can be for the worse. I feel as if I'm waiting for another candidate to step forward. Al Gore, get out here...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 07 2008 at 12:47pm
I think it may be a combo.  Her campaign is in serious trouble.  Voters she counted on - women, young people and Independents - are flocking to Obama.  She could be frustrated, not only about experience being thrown under a truck, but because her dreams of getting back in the White House appear to be dwindling.  The media and other pundits had all but annointed her the next President of the United States.  I think she's had a sense of ownership on that position for a few years now.  I believe exhaustion could be a factor, too.  However, all the candidates are sleep deprived at this point. 
 
Muskie's so-called tears killed his campaign in '72.  I want to see how this plays out with the public.  Will the majority see her tearing as a positive or a negative?  Muskie was a family friend for decades and always maintained he did not cry, that those were melting snow flakes falling down his cheeks.  I have to believe him.  He was an emotional man with a hot temper, to be sure, but he was too smart a politician to have cried during that speech.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s. p. a. t. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 07 2008 at 1:20pm
Not acting I don't think. Al GoreThumbs%20Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sue W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 07 2008 at 2:29pm
Dream -- you think it's partly contrived?
 
I don't think so, it's not acting.
 
Yay Al Gore, yes.
 
I think it will probably splash back on Clinton though. I try not to call her Hillary as that's become a way Rush Limbaugh etc. belittle her, by calling her by her first name. They don't call Edwards "John" or Romney simply "Mitt." They do that here with our female governor, calling her "Jenny."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 07 2008 at 2:36pm
Hi Sue,
 
I'm not sure.  When campaigns get desparate, they'll try most anything.  The local news director did throw out that question about her likability Saturday night.  She's gone down in the tracking polls since.
 
I think it's unfair to characterize her as being too tough as a female.  They don't do the same with men.  There's a double standard where she is concerned I don't like.
 
Now that she's shown some emotion, who knows how it will play out.
 
Her high negatives indicate there are many people who see her as cold and unfeeling.  I'm willing to bet the people who view her that way don't apply the same standard to the male candidates.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 07 2008 at 3:01pm

Look at the video with the sound off.  Does that look like acting. . . or even some big deal?

I think that she's handling the reality of the situation amazingly well.
 
Too many people in this country can't see or hear past gender, IMO. 
 
People project all sorts of crap on her.  To me. . . she's the ONLY one who I've seen so far, who has the experience and intelligence and good intension to get the job done right.
 
Other candidates have 1 or 2 of these attributes, but she has all 3.
 
Big huge problem.... she is a SHE.  If SHE loses. . . that's the only thing "wrong" with her, IMO. 
 
I think that's something we should all be crying about!
 
Mixey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 07 2008 at 3:21pm
I just watched Dick Morris interviewed about her tearing up today.  Whatever we may think of him, he knows the Clinton's as well as anyone.  He was the architect for some of Bill Clinton's gubernatorial campaigns and opponent play books, not to mention them pulling him in to advise while Bill was in the White House.
 
This was his opinion on the matter.  He said the tears were real, but he feels the reason for the tears were not what she said they were.  He said she has had a sense of entitlement re the presidency for a long time.  She's frustrated and bewildered that her campaign is in trouble.  He said it's the closest he's ever seen her to a breakdown since she came to him after her health care debacle during Bill's first term.  He said she had the same look on her face then and asked him why nothing they were attempting to do was turning out right.  They were having terrible political problems at the time.  That's when they pulled Morris in to set up game plans for them.
 
When asked what he thinks her campaign will do now, he said it's been a long time since he's done a play book for them, but his guess is she will play the race card in a very subtle way.  She'll start saying that Obama is not electable and she is, etc..
 
I hope he's dead wrong about that!!!
 
After Morris' interview, they showed the video to a group of New Hampshire Democratic voters and measured their responses to what she said.  In the beginning, they were with her and sympathetic.  As she continued, the line went down.
 
When they asked those voters what they thought about it, the several interviewed said she had them in the beginning, but lost them the longer she talked.  They didn't like the way she turned it into an attack on her Democratic opponents.
 
dream 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sue W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 07 2008 at 3:40pm
I agree, that she has a sense of entitlement ...I think you were right on that. I'm not sure I take Dick Morris as a credible source LOL ...I value you more as a source, Dream...
 
Edwards' reaction to her tears was, "Yeah campaigning is tough, but being president is even tougher." Good point.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 07 2008 at 3:55pm
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!! Sue!!LOL
 
I know what you mean about Morris, but he is right a lot of the time with his political analysis'.  He's a sleeze bag, but so are the other political operatives who work on campaign play books.  Both parties have them and they're a strange and unique breed who often make the difference between winning and losing.  They're never seen out front.  Most campaigns keep them hidden, as the Clinton's did when they brought him into the White House towards the end of Bill's first two years in office.  His advise did turn things around.
 
I've met a few of these folks and would never want to hang with them because much of what they do is dirty business.
 
I saw Edward's make his comment on the news and thought it was good, too.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sue W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 07 2008 at 4:05pm
I like the word "skeeze" for Morris ...it's apropros.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 07 2008 at 4:38pm
I don't know if she feels a sense of entitlement or not. I would imagine she's more than irritated that people look at her for being un-entitled for being where she already is!!
 
I see it as her frustration at a campaign to make sure she's "voted" into last place.
 
If it was me. . . I'd show up tonight wearing a beard like Letterman's, and Bill ... wearing a dress. 
 
All I'd say would be. . .
 
I hope this helps.
 
If Gore shows up. . . I'll vote for him.
 
Mixey
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 08 2008 at 3:58am
I dunno, Mixey.  I think she and Bill have felt they deserve to be back in the White House ever since he left.  It's probably been part of their plan for many years.  I think they've really believed she would be a shoe-in.  Many political journalists and pundits believed the same thing.  I don't think they ever saw the ground swell for Obama coming.  I think she resents him coming out of nowhere and throwing a monkey wrench into her plans.
 
People who know her, besides Dick Morris, seem to think the same thing.  It's not a "right wing conspiracy" causing her problems, it's voters in her own party.
 
I don't count her out of the race completely at this point.  I heard on CNN last night that James Carville is willing to join her campaign immediately, if the current political director leaves.  We all know how successful he was in getting her husband elected.  I think we'll see some shuffling in her campaign if she loses tonight.  She has to do something quickly or she's finished.
 
The script she's using now isn't working for her.  Her campaign needs to change direction and she needs to find something that works.  They also need to go after Obama aggresively to stop the wave and momentum his campaign has.  How they do that is crucial to her success as well.
 
Just my opinions.Smile
 
dream
 
BTW - are we going to watch the New Hampshire returns tonight??  I'm wondering if we need a new thread, or we should just continue our comments in the debate thread??  What do you all think??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 08 2008 at 7:45am
        I heard Mrs. Clinton speak at a last minute rally last night.
She spoke of doing a bunch of expensive things..Health care for all,
Collage funding help for students,Creating jobs for non-collage workers
thru re-training,Job creation from alternative enery projects,keeping up the defence of the country, and much more. Where will the money come from? Taxing the rich is not gonna do all of what she proposes to do.
    I like what Democrats talk of doing...end the war, more jobs,etc.etc.
but wonder where the funding money will come from, the tax situation,
and falling dollar,inflation, recession issues that we face in the nation.
   All these proposals will cost a lot of money. You can't print what you need anymore. Bill Clinton tried to wage a war on terror by pushing buttons on cruise missles. How will Mrs. Clinton deal with terror without
involving ground based troops? I am not against her, but I need to know
a few things about how she can function without funding, and how she will fight the terror threat.
Down, and nearly out in Detroit......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 08 2008 at 7:58am
Good questions, Toad.  Those and more are my questions for all the plans the Democratic candidates especially, and some of the Republicans throw at us.  WHERE WILL THE $$$ COME FROM???
 
The largest part of our budget is spent on entitlement programs, not the war in Iraq.  Medicare and Social Security are in serious trouble.  I've heard the Republicans address those issues, but not the Democrats.
 
There's tremendous fraud and waste in the government run entitlement programs we have now, to the tune of billions wasted annually.  What makes them think new programs will be run any better than the current ones??  What about tackling the waste that exists in the current programs to finance new ones???
 
I'm tired of the platitudes, I want specifics and answers re who will pay and how much.
 
dream
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote misty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 08 2008 at 8:58am
Back to the original question - I think the choking up was sincere.  I don't think she'd want people (especially opponents) to see her in a weak moment - they'd just run with it and use it to say she was too  'emotional' for the presidency - so it read genuine to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 08 2008 at 9:08am

I agree Misty.

I also agree Toad and Dream that the where will the $$$ come from questions are extremely important. . .
 
Wouldn't it stand to reason that if the money wasn't flying out the door for the war for oil. . . then maybe we'd be better able to oil our gears at home?
 
Mixey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 08 2008 at 9:26am
Hi Misty!!
 
I do think the choking up was real, I just question what was really behind it.  John Edwards did run with it - I haven't heard yet what her other Democratic opponents said.  I did hear on CNN last night there have been discussions within her campaign about her showing more emotion vs staying steeled in her comments.  What bothers me is she's damned if she does and she's damned if she doesn't.  I don't like the double standard implications.
 
Hi Mixey,
 
The war for oil will have to continue whenever the supply is threatened as long as the U.S. is dependent on it.  There's no quick and easy fix to our energy problems.
 
I think it's more important to get rid of the waste and abuse that exists in our current entitlement programs.  There would be more than enough savings there to finance some of the new programs the candidates are talking about.
 

dream

SHOULD WE HAVE A NEW THREAD TO DISCUSS TONIGHT'S RETURNS FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE  OR continue the discussion in the debate thread?????

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 08 2008 at 9:38am
Dream. . . I like what you started in the "Heads Up Back to Back Debates" thread.  It's cool to have a running thread that covers it all, IMO. . . unless it would be easier for us to refer to each step of the way in different threads.   
 
It's good with me just having you guys to interact with somewhere, so I'm not set on either idea. Smile
 
Mixey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 08 2008 at 9:41am
I tend to agree, Mixey.  Those of us who've participated in that thread have read it all along anyway.
 
I LOVE the fact we interact in threads here as things are happening.  It's like we're all sitting around someone's living room together having a good time.Smile
 
dream
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