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    Posted: Mar 30 2010 at 8:04am
               What do you think?
 
      " Everybody wants to go to Heaven, but nobody
  wants to die."  [ Albert King ] Confused
 
 
 toad
Down, and nearly out in Detroit......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MickeyMac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 30 2010 at 3:51pm
I keep my religious views to myself.  I find its better that way.  Kinda like politics.  If people dont agree with you, they get mad at you.
Anybody else missing George Bush besides me?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 31 2010 at 10:23am
Sadly - almost every religion teaches it's followers that "their way" is the only way ... that their God is the only God ... and that everyone who doesn't believe in their God won't reach heaven. And often that the other non-believers are an enemy.
 
This is why people cannot discuss religion rationally and politely. And why, down through the centuries, the world has continually been at war in the name of God.
 
I have a close friend who had a life after life experience many years ago and once recounted that episode for me. He is a well traveled individual who has worked in broadcast news for decades; well educated, well read. And was not religious; not a churchgoer. 
 
He was in a nasty car crash and coded on the scene of the accident; he was technically dead for about a full minute. In short, my friend described astrally projecting out of his body, looking down on the accident scene with EMT workers struggling to revive him. In that moment of literally hovering above the scene he said he was lucid - could see, hear, and was self-aware. Was not in pain, and felt at peace. Shortly, a relative who had died some years prior came to him there. This relative - an uncle - greeted him and told him not to worry; that there was nothing to fear, and that this was "not his time" yet. That he would go back, and that he looked forward to receiving him when his time truly did come.
 
Instants later, Tom regained conciousness, back in his body. He was taken to a hospital and spent two weeks in recovery.
 
Before he was discharged he got to speak with one of the attending EMTs who helped revive him. Tom asked the EMT how long he'd been dead, and the EMT guessed about a full minute, slightly more or less. My friend asked him if it could have been possible for him to see or hear anything when he was dead, and the EMT flat-out said no. At which point my friend mentioned specific things he observed "while dead" - things people did, and said - all of which he remembered very clearly - and asked the EMT if these memories were accurate.
 
The EMT was apparently a little freaked out to hear these things, and had to admit that my friend was correct... but could not square in his own mind that a dead man could "be aware."
 
True story from a man who was not religious - and still isn't. What my friend DID become was very spiritual.
 
Make of that what you will.
 
 
 
 
Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dream207 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 31 2010 at 1:31pm
GREAT story, Jeff, and I have heard others similar to your friend's.
 
I won't get into my feelings about organized religion here but suffice it to say I have my own relationship with God and I am very spiritual as well.
 
dream/Mary
http://cdbaby.com/cd/eugenepitt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote QUEENY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2010 at 4:30pm
 Truth is " everyBODY'S" gonna die  but not quite sure where their soul will  end up (LOL)
AINT UNDERSTANDING MELLOW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2010 at 5:10pm

<FONT size=+0>My "belief" is both scientific and religious (my own beliefs, however... I don't belong to a religious group, although I'm interested in learning as much as I can about these groups, as well as others that are based on non-beliefs). 


I think that because matter can't be created or destroyed,  there's a here-after of some sort... yes.

 

If you look at all matter as being a collective one, then we probably all have the ability to put the puzzle together whatever way we choose.

 

If we choose to put it together as a here-after of heaven and hell... or whatever, then I imagine that's what it will be.

 

Whatever we think we are... we are.  Whatever we do to each other, we do to ourselves.

 

Did I just move into The Woof House? Thumbs%20Up

 

Mixey / Mary LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2010 at 6:06pm

No matter what you believe ... you'll never know until you go.

So I guess all our assumptions must remain just that ... assumptions.
 
My friend knows.  He crossed over.  He experienced what it was/is. 
 
Now ... was his experience subjective?  I used to think it was.
I used to believe that the death experience is organically created
in the mind.  My friend's experience challenged my beliefs.
 
I've been on the fence ever since.  I just don't know anymore.
Usually, I embrace empirical evidence and science because they
provide us with things we can hold in our hand, and point to and say:
"Look! Here it is!"
 
The afterlife experience - so far - has eluded the comfy confines of
empirical evidence.  Maybe one day we'll have a way of "sampling death"...
like what happened in that movie "Brainstorm". 
 
Until then, I guess we'll all have to keep guessing.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lindsay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2010 at 12:00am
the vainity of it..........


It sums us up that man needs to be told to be good and what being good is and then offered rewards for being so. We alternately need to be told whats bad and warned progressing up to being made fearful of what might happen if we do not obey. Its quiet pathetic really.

Why does anyone need to be told to be good over bad ........Man apparently has free will...... therefore must know the difference or thats not fair to punish a man if he does not know what good or being bad is. Why set man up to fail just eradicate his ability to be bad.

Pardon me but there is no heaven and no hell either.
I wish there was though..........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2010 at 1:36am

I don't know either Jeff... and I don't have a difficult time with saying I don't know to something, or as you say ... "on the fence". 

Your friend's experience gave him a certainty that I can't say is right or wrong, because I'm not him; but I have heard similar accounts; and having been with 2 very close family members, as they slipped away, I can say via my certainty, that I could feel them in different ways.  One jumped out of his body and remained right there in the same form; and one went in and out and then expanded outwards.
 
Death might simply be whatever we make it to be.  We can perceive in whatever, or none of it.  Everybody can be right, possibly.
 
So maybe there is AND isn't a heaven and a hell or eternal black space or whatever.
 
I was with you on your point about vanity Lindsay, until you got to the part about saying "Pardon me but there is no heaven and no hell either. I wish there was though..........".
Maybe you meant to say... in my opinion... etc. 
 
Believers and non-believers are 2 sides of the same coin... in my opinion.  Both are professing to know it all.
 
In terms of the idea of experiencing accountability in an afterlife, I've always felt that if one person does something that's hurtful, all of humanity is affected by it here... let alone somewhere else.  It may be possible that heaven and hell is what is always being experienced and death is our way of reinventing ourselves to survive better... We become an evolutionary necessity of life and therefore continue to come back.
 
Possibly intention is the most important aspect of human nature, and it continues on. 
 
If there's too much intention on greed, there might be more hell to pay.
 
Mixey
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2010 at 7:09am
            Looking at the periotic table of elements
 we see all the material of this earth that allows life
 to occure here. Add to that the size of this rock,
 the speed and distance it is from the sun, and our moon's size and orbit, all also dependant on the size
 of our sun and it's mass that allow the combinations
 of elements to produce everything we see, hear,
 and feel.
      Science has produced life from a soup of elements
 adding electricity. Basic life. Single cell living objects
 evolving into all living things.
       Every minute, there are species of life that have gone extinct for some reason or another.
       Humans are fortunate to have evolved into mammels that have many built-in gifts. Did we evolve
 that way, or were we sent here or placed here from
 someplace other than earth? This appears to be the
 ultimate question. Why do we have dominion over
 all the other living things..or do we?
       We could destroy most life on earth with nukes,
 but not all of it. We are learning that we are dependant
 on all other living things to survive..at least some of
 us are. Mythology and religion have given us the concept of an "afterlife." Someplace our "spirit" goes
 after death. Do we possess a spirit, or is our spirit
 what we project to others while we remain living?
     In death our bodies, brains, and heart are
 reduced back to the basic elements of life.
      Life, death, Infinity...
   Every living thing impacts all other living things
 at any point in time. Every living thing has worth at
 any point in time. Good, bad,right,wrong, Heaven,
 Hell....Life,death...
     We celebrate life, which is good and as it should be.
 We mourn and fear death for a good reason...
 It is the total opposite of life.
   Some love life..others not so much.
   Some abhor death..others embrace it.
  Time...space... realativity...
 
 
 toad
 
 
Down, and nearly out in Detroit......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2010 at 7:45am
Mixey,
 
I like your thought:  "I've always felt that if one person does
something that's hurtful, all of humanity is affected by it here...
let alone somewhere else."
 
I'm guessing that you'd say this applies to having done good deeds as well.
 
This notion appeals to me.  Perhaps that's because I've had times
where I thought I had actually experienced some discernable cause
and effect here... or, if you will, a sort of karmic result to my actions.
Maybe what you refer to IS down to karma.  I'm thinking there's
definitely something at work there.
 
Empirical science can't pin down karma, either.  But I've had moments
in my life where I thought I was being given "feedback" for my actions.
I've seen little "signs"... seen discrete little things that have happened
after my having done a nice deed, or a favor for someone. I've even
reacted physically, just for a second or two... felt a buzz.
Coincidence? Or is my cosmic radio picking up something?
 
When I have done bad things, either hurtful things to myself or
someone else, the "feedback" - the "sign" - is harder to recognize.
But somehow it feels to me like bad perpetuates bad in my life.
And that I pay somehow when I know I'm doing wrong.
 
More and more I'm coming around to thinking that there ARE a lot
of things at play that we may be missing as humans, but which we
ARE capable of experiencing. And that the culture we've created,
and this mechanized world we live in only serves to distance us and
distract us from the things we might otherwise BE connected to.
 
Jeff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2010 at 2:35pm
Yes Jeff... good deeds as well.
 
Dead bodies transmit something, even if they're scattered.  So do dead cells, that fall off of every living thing. 
 
I know this, because of having worked with a top forensic chemist.  He was a man of science, but he relied on his knowing... more than his data. He and a martial artist friend of mine helped me to trust my senses more. 
 
In terms of heaven,  who knows... but I do know that a person's essence seems to be around after they're gone.  I like to think they can communicate at will.  I know people, who feel certain they are in communication with the dead.  I've never had the experience that I know of. May-be I'm blocking it.
 
Mixey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lindsay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2010 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by M I X E Y M I X E Y wrote:

<FONT size=+0>I don't know either Jeff... and I don't have a difficult time with saying I don't know to something, or as you say ... "on the fence". 


Your friend's experience gave him a certainty that I can't say is right or wrong, because I'm not him; but I have heard similar accounts; and having been with 2 very close family members, as they slipped away, I can say via my certainty, that I could feel them in different ways.  One jumped out of his body and remained right there in the same form; and one went in and out and then expanded outwards.

 

Death might simply be whatever we make it to be.  We can perceive in whatever, or none of it.  Everybody can be right, possibly.

 

So maybe there is AND isn't a heaven and a hell or eternal black space or whatever.

 

I was with you on your point about vanity Lindsay, until you got to the part about saying "Pardon me but there is no heaven and no hell either. I wish there was though..........".

Maybe you meant to say... in my opinion... etc. 

 

Believers and non-believers are 2 sides of the same coin... in my opinion.  Both are professing to know it all.

 

In terms of the idea of experiencing accountability in an afterlife, I've always felt that if one person does something that's hurtful, all of humanity is affected by it here... let alone somewhere else.  It may be possible that heaven and hell is what is always being experienced and death is our way of reinventing ourselves to survive better... We become an evolutionary necessity of life and therefore continue to come back.

 

Possibly intention is the most important aspect of human nature, and it continues on. 

 

If there's too much intention on greed, there might be more hell to pay.

 

Mixey


 



I think I need to hear aggression in my voice when I say 'Theres no heaven or hell" I have been told I will be sent to hell for not being a god fearing soul. That makes me mad because there is no God and therefore no heaven or hell.............I don`t know how to make it sound nice. Its what I believe. Odd though that our images will stay on this earth longer than we where ever projected to stay.
Thats my Boy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2010 at 8:10pm

Lindsay,

I object to anyone who states a belief as though it's a fact that should be imposed on someone else.
 
Saying that there absolutely is a heaven, is just as ridiculous as stating that there absolutely is no heaven.  NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE EITHER WAY... that I know of anyway! 
 
We can have opinions and form strong feelings about it, and live our lives according to what we'd like to believe.  I don't think there's anything wrong with that, unless those beliefs involve disrespecting or terrorizing somebody else... like being all-knowing and telling somebody they'll be sent to hell for not being a God fearing soul.  That's a lot of nerve!
 
I know a lot of people who live by their absolute beliefs... and they attend various churches.  I also know some atheists.  I'm fine with all of it, as long as they don't judge me negatively based on their beliefs.
 
I don't know what's going to happen to me when I die, and I don't need to know.  It doesn't affect how I live my life. 
 
As far as... is there a God or not... I think there's got to be something that put this place together.  If you throw up the pieces, what are the odds they'll come down this way, unless some form of intelligence masterminded it.
 
I don't get it... and I don't pretend to.  It's beyond my human comprehension ability.  I do know, however, that if I'm quiet for awhile, sometimes I can sort of tap into some kind of a stream that feels good, and some cool things happen creatively... and sometimes even the universe makes sense for as long as I can hold onto that thought.
 
Mixey
 
ps... You're not a "British piece of shit"!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lindsay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2010 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by M I X E Y M I X E Y wrote:

<FONT size=+0>

Lindsay,


I object to anyone who states a belief as though it's a fact that should be imposed on someone else.

 

Saying that there absolutely is a heaven, is just as ridiculous as stating that there absolutely is no heaven.  NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE EITHER WAY... that I know of anyway! 

 

We can have opinions and form strong feelings about it, and live our lives according to what we'd like to believe.  I don't think there's anything wrong with that, unless those beliefs involve disrespecting or terrorizing somebody else... like being all-knowing and telling somebody they'll be sent to hell for not being a God fearing soul.  That's a lot of nerve!

 

I know a lot of people who live by their absolute beliefs... and they attend various churches.  I also know some atheists.  I'm fine with all of it, as long as they don't judge me negatively based on their beliefs.

 

I don't know what's going to happen to me when I die, and I don't need to know.  It doesn't affect how I live my life. 

 

As far as... is there a God or not... I think there's got to be something that put this place together.  If you throw up the pieces, what are the odds they'll come down this way, unless some form of intelligence masterminded it.

 

I don't get it... and I don't pretend to.  It's beyond my human comprehension ability.  I do know, however, that if I'm quiet for awhile, sometimes I can sort of tap into some kind of a stream that feels good, and some cool things happen creatively... and sometimes even the universe makes sense for as long as I can hold onto that thought.

 

Mixey

 

ps... You're not a "British piece of shit"!

 


Thank you Mixey ........ I understand what you say. I too for many years tried to stay neutral. I found it impossible because I do believe its possible that things just happened. I have to ask you what created the creator? When does it end?

I did not know they had a DR Who convention in San Diego until recently.........wow things are looking up!

Thats my Boy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lindsay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2010 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by QUEENY QUEENY wrote:

 Truth is " everyBODY'S" gonna die  but not quite sure where their soul will  end up (LOL)


So how can one determine where they go assuming that there is a good place to go to and a bad place to go to and how would anyone know what is expected of them to bargain for a ticket?..........If I watched porn would that make be a candidate for the bad place.....lol.

If I make cookies for my friends would that help me get into the good place........

If I am the best possible candidate to go to the good place why am I not blocked because if I really was deserving I would have turned to the person behind me and offered them the opportunity to go first after all thats only being polite.

You see I like to jest. Its my way because I want to know the answers and its very, very, very frustrating when there are not dropped pieces of bread to guide me out of this forest. Guess I will always be the Heathen pressed up against the glass dome between what I can see in my mind but blocked by what I am not able to feel.

Thats my Boy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote QUEENY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2010 at 10:58am
...JUST An ABODE FOR THE SOUL TO  REST  & REGENERATE FROM THE HARDSHIPS OF THIS CRAZY PLANET EARTH...
FOR EVERYTHING BENEATH, THERE'S SOMETHING ABOVE ...FOR EVERYTHING HOLY THERE'S SOMETHING UNHOLY...FOR EVERYTHING KNOWN THERE'S SOMETHING UNKNOWN...AND SO ON AND SO ON....FOR EVERYTHING THAT'S EVERYTHING, THERE'S SOMETIMES  N O T H I N G..BUT IF WE BELIEVE WHAT WE BELIEVE THEN IT  JUST MIGHT BE SO...(LOL)
AINT UNDERSTANDING MELLOW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gene_Leone_Mix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 24 2012 at 8:49pm

Roughly two years ago, Toad posted the following:



Originally posted by toad toad wrote:

               What do you think?
 

      " Everybody wants to go to Heaven, but nobody

  wants to die."  [ Albert King ] Confused

 

 

 toad



I, so very, very much, if it were somehow possible, would love to hear what Toad would have to tell us about all of this, and somehow be able to continue this conversation, from where ever he is, right now.
(RIP Toad)

Lately, it just seems that little of anything that humans are willing to do to each other while on this rock floating through space, has any lasting value, or positive outcome and permanent good purpose.

Why?

Seriously, what the hell is all of this about, here on planet earth,
and what the hell are we all doing here?

~Geno








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M I X E Y Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2012 at 8:26am
I'm not so sure about the nobody wants to die thing, Geno. I think some people absolutely want to die, because living causes them too much suffering.

So possibly the clue I can derive from that observation is that maybe our real reason for being here, is to try to end suffering... or to make it more simple... learn how to be happy.

As I've said elsewhere, too many people are indoctrinated with achieving a merit of being right, instead of simply being happy. I don't think it's possible to be trained in life the way we are from childhood, and not be overly focused on being right... winning, etc.

I don't think that most of as humans are happy when we're focused that way.

I'd like to talk to Toad too Geno. He's probably "up there" wishing all of us to rest in peace.

Mixey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gene_Leone_Mix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2012 at 1:21pm
Ya know, in the big picture of all of this,
these words really do make
a hell of alot of sense...

"...too many people are indoctrinated with achieving a merit of being right,
instead of simply being happy." - Mixey


Seriously worth thinking about this... for all of humanity to think about, too.

Pondering this right now, I wonder... has a war ever started where all sides were happy with each other?


~Geno

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